Accuracy and availability may vary. And oddly enough, we got a really interesting take on the true nature of badness from this guy-. Let's expect more from technology, let's put smart to work, visit ibm.com/smart to learn more. And it becomes Zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. Well, the thing that haunts me about the why question that I'm reminded of one of the oldest stories in the Bible, which is the story of Job. And he did too. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org. And that was a question that had haunted my father for decades. This is what totally pulled me into this story, the prods. He walked out of the room and just started weeping. This is Radiolab. We didn't really come into any kind of agreement with the Haber thing. And so I went up to the bedroom to find him and he was in a rage. But harbor saw it as a wonderful success, and wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it, because he felt they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. Birds would just fall from the air. That is if you don't continue, we're going to have to discontinue the experiment. Now there's a footnote to this that is very strange. Like, you walked into the room, what- what do you find? Oft have I digged up dead men from their graves and sit them up right at the dear friend's door. And we end with the story of a man who chased one of the most prolific serial killers in US history, then got a chance to ask him the question that had haunted him for years: why? With AI, blockchain, and quantum technology, IBM is developing smart, scalable technologies that help businesses work better together. Is that like a- like a green cloud? But if looked at from another perspective, there is a sense in which you could celebrate what they're doing. You know, just because of a mathematical summing up. And also a scientist. Wasn't satisfying me, it made me mad that she was very much in a hurry, she had something else on her mind, and I killed her. What's the noble cause in this case? Okay? So you ask like, "Why do people do bad things?". I would say in a powerful mood; we're close to some really fundamental truths about human nature. TRANSCRIPTS We are working to provide transcripts for as much of our programming as we can over. And my father was recruited to the task force. It's a graphic or an illustrated novel. So, he sends a letter to the Ministry of Education resigning and he leaves Germany, telling a friend he felt like he lost his homeland. In December of 2001, my father and his colleagues, uh, made the arrest. There's trench warfare, it gets bogged down and Haber has an idea. And so, Satan basically systematically destroys Job's life, takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. It is a fair question to ask what are the conditions under which you or me or any of us could do-. The subjects are 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50. It's 9:24 hours on June 17th, year 2003. Yes I did lie about that. He signs up immediately, sends a letter volunteering for duty. So, you don't know. Can we really know that? In front of this really impressive looking machine. Um, "Demand me nothing. Podcast Transcripts of Radiolab Radiolab Society & Culture Science Latest Transcripts What Up Holmes? A lot of them were like, "This is not how you fight a war.". Gary says, "I needed to kill." The good Iagos make you want to shower the minute you leave the theater. So every day, they would bring them into this conference room-, This is a continuation of an interview with Gary Leon Ridgeway-. When I stand before you, judges of Israel, in this court [Foreign 00:12:14] to accuse Adolf Eichmann [Foreign 00:12:18], I do not stand alone. But in experiment number three, if they put the shockee in the same room with the shocker so the shocker could actually see the person as the shockee. Yeah, I agree with that. But the questions in the air, at the time, were very real. And that's what Shakespeare did in all his plays. Well, you know, you can see that's a good thing. Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a free audiobook. This is Radio Lab, and today elements. And then it was several hours later, in the middle of the night, that I got the call. In Seattle today a man called the Green River killer-. And while you're doing that, just give me your finger. The reason why he's telling all this stuff is because he has cut a deal. And I used to socialize with him and his wife. This is what totally pulled me into the story. And 84% of the women. And if they still were resisting or struggling, they'd get prod number three. No, but there's part of me says, "You know, here's a guy who just wanted to do everything better than had ever been done before." I'm good. But if they were prepared to do that, when I suspect a lot of them would, then we'd say, "These are people who really believe in science, and isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society, who are willing to make sacrifices-. The whole thing happened serveral years ago. I'm about to help this quest for knowledge, I really want to do a good job.". And not just yeses. He figured maybe 1% of these men would keep flicking these switches up to the highest voltage, but that's not what he found. And you like her. Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. Um, could you just- just tell me, uh, the little story that you begin your book with? I knew what he was capable of, so I suggested that we go out for a walk and I, basically, spent the next half hour walking around with him trying to cool him off. Yeah. On the other hand, if anyone can do it-. I'm almost done, guys. You can see this in the surveys that the men filled out after the experiments were over. Well, have you ever been blackmailed the way this woman was being blackmailed? I-. Um, we lived together for a couple months. Only then does God speak up and kind of say, like, "You're gonna question me?" Now, why don't you just- what do you remember since we last talked in this interview? He had an attack or something there. No 'cause if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s you could always go to a public hanging. And, um, why is it so important do you think to understand the why behind such an evil act? Imagine they really were had to administer shocks to themselves or something. Especially when it came to one particular fact. The experiment requires that we continue. And to bring a few other of our storytellers in. And then, he just trails off. With my arm. Necrophilia. ", Only 10 percent, under those circumstances, go on. My father's trying to, like, reach out to him. Because Haber figured out a way to take nitrogen from the air, put it into the barren ground and grew wheat. Their goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you. Okay. Up until that point, Gary refused to say, "That from the minute I picked these women up, I wanted to kill them." How many times would they shock that sad-. You're bad. We have kids in the- in the room. Okay. Now what you need to understand about Alex Haslem is that he hates it when interviewers only want to talk about the baseline study. Accuracy and availability may vary. And when nitrogen and hydrogen bond together, the thing you get-. She was actually a sort of a genius herself. Visit casper.com/radiolab and use code radiolab and check out to get $50 towards select mattresses. Said, "Deadly enmity between two friends make poor men's cattle break their necks, set fire on barns, and haystacks in the night, and bid the owners quench them with their tears. But even with all that gore and horribleness, there was often a moment that people waited for. So, I broke up with him. But did it, publicly, in front of her friends. Okay, so what happened to David that night with his friend got him really curious about murder, and badness, and all these things we're thinking about. Who they would kill, where they'd do it, when. They're, supposedly, chums but General Othello has no idea that that Iago-. But that's just a- those are fantasies. Any time the experimenter said, "You must continue" the shocker would say, "Hell no, I don't.". And what happens is that your elbowing the nitrogen apart from itself, and then forcing it to bond with the hydrogen in a new way. Walk- walk away. This is Jeff Jensen and he's a reporter in LA. And today, evil? He's bald, he has a potbelly, he has these pince-nez spectacles, he's chomping on a Virginian cigar, he was always smoking these Virginian cigars and he's wearing a fur coat. We don't exactly know why. Two more minutes. Up until that point, Gary refused to say that "From the minute I picked these women up I wanted to kill them." Fact is if you don't continue, uh, we're going to discontinue the experiment. But I mean, he's up to 195 volts. The show is nationally syndicated and is available as a podcast. Well, I mean, I know that sir, but I mean, he's up to a 195 volts. Who's going to do this powerful piece of science. Right? Equal Housing lender licensed in all 50 states. And-. We have nothing. So, here's the interesting thing. I might even tilt towards saying he's a little good to be honest. And this particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote. He knew about it. But if you put two experimenters in the room, and-. Y-P-R-E-S. Actually, the Americans called it Yeeps. The general's name is Othello. Some- some people described it as a cloud, and then, others described it as this kind of 15 foot wall kind of hugging the land. Mm-hmm (affirmative), Mm-hmm (affirmative). They brought in psychiatrists and forensic psychologists to try to get an answer. Check out the Casper or the Wave mattress providing supportive comfort for every body type. [2] In a rage, uh, how? "Definitely yes.". But there's been a fellow, I've been thinking about him for the better part of year, as you know-. Radiolab is supported by Casper. Haber's gas troops, unscrew, they open the valves on almost 6,000 tanks, containing 150 tons of chlorine. It's part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of like a daily musical journey into other human lives. Hmm. He would deny things, he would obscure, he would dance around things. He eventually goes to England. Like, saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy.". Why did you inflict on this suffering on them, on us? We begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. Really? The one that everybody knows, the so called baseline. I think I call it [prince-nez 00:28:23], so I'm not sure. Um, although there's some (laughs) [crosstalk 00:02:19]. Uh, when- when asked how close she came to killing him, she estimated 60%. In the other room, there was a guy who he called the learner who is supposed to have memorized some words. And the, uh, really, really bad that is in, uh, some of us. Let's just finish this. Hi, my name's Josh and I'm calling from Harlem, New York. And you know there's nothing a closet full of clothes to help balance that out. Horrified like, "Oh my God, my students are murderers?" Whether the learner likes it or not, we must-, What's interesting is that how all of these struggles, all of them-, Play out the same way. No. Warning. How many times would they shock that sad-. 35.3M . To find page after page of yeses. You wouldn't though, would you really? Eventually Iago convinces Othello that his wife has been disloyal; which she hasn't. Want to talk about bad people in Shakespeare. Don't- don't the man's health mean anything? So he felt publicly humiliated. And then, and- So, he says that and you're like, "Okay. He takes command of them partially, he travels to the front. With higher and higher voltage. If any sizable fraction actually acted on their homicidal fantasies, the streets would be running red. I invited him for dinner and as he was in the kitchen looking stupid peeling the carrots to make salad, I came up to him laughingly, gently so that he wouldn't suspect anything. "You know, you're not the first person that's ever done this.". Stanley Milgram had four scripted prods that he wrote out for his experimenters. And 91 percent of the men said, "Yes." Just to back up for one second. We should say that this next section of the program has some references which are extremely graphic and not to everybody's tastes. Carries electric shocks. He- he loves the fatherland and he loves Germany. It was developed in his institute. Literally disappeared for six months and didn't tell anyone where she was because she was terrified that he was going to kill her. And he believed it. Be right back. Stanley Milgram took electric shock very seriously. Obviously no need to be alarmed, that was not a real shot. Speaker 2: The authoritative record of New York Public Radios programming is the audio record. And you find yourself in a situation where you've got to do something that's hard. If any sizeable fraction actually acted on their homicidal fantasies, the streets would be running- running red. Yeah. And he ran them through something like what you and I just did. I'm not going to go ahead with it. 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