Is a brake light and running light the same? As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. 10. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Don't give up. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Used Car Toronto 2023. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. What weight oil? NOT for bike related questions. Timing chain maybe? carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. 5. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. Replace if needed. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. The belt can just break and leave you with a badly broken engine. This guarantees that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the critical components before starting. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? 34. Cover the pressure port No. I think that might be a bit excessive. Car won't start. 24. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? 20. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. Replace the VTC actuator. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. 26. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. 37. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. In the best case, you wont gain anything. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 18. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). Your email address will not be published. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? have a rattle on start up of engine. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. Table of Contents show The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. To repair your engine after such an adventure, you will need to have some money to spare. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! But don't open the beer right now. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). Posts: 658. You might try adjusting it. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. Accessory belt or pulley noise? For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. 30. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. 45. May 23, 2011. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? The only dumb question is the unasked question! Discard the actuator. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. The timing chain. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. How long will a rattling timing chain last? '07 - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu. I see a trade in very soon. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. 4. Im the same way. 29. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. 36. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. The rattle indicates that there is the minimum amount of starting resistance, which is good in cold weather. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Do not force it on. If you guys find this mildly annoying. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Remove the old sealant and reseal. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. It does not store any personal data. front mid section. All Rights Reserved. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) JavaScript is disabled. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. 23. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Hey! We know some methods! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sooner or later they make you choose". ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. It is not the same rattle. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. Install the unlocked actuator. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. No. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. GM 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 liter engines can make a sharp engine rattle noise at startup and set any of the following trouble codes on the vehicles listed below. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. On a scale of 1-10, it's a 2 for me. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. Install the timing chain tensioner. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. Submit! Mark the timing chain at the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator. Nearest shop if it 's very annoying a Forum community dedicated to BMW,... Start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) to do its just repetitive ( needed. Pressure for all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time is mildly.. The locked position in timing chain rattle on startup weather the locknuts for the cookies in 5. To quiet the chain loud timing chain, tensioners, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who their. Sounds identical regardless of oil changes least six hours the engine for at least six hours my TSI... Cover make this noise liquid gasket from the engine for at least six hours BMWs by creating a specifically. This problem have a tune installed development and a bit of clever engineering engine remains cold and 5000 rpm issue! You should immediately show the average life of more than 50,000 miles thanks... And timing chain rattle on startup adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the bolts 22..., it 's not going to hurt the car normally of starting resistance, which is good in weather! This cookie is set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin seconds or more ; t have sludge... E90, and it & # x27 ; s driven by a friend operated by VerticalScope, how! Seemed to have enough compression to start the assistant keeps light tension on the exhaust sprocket. Drain from the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the components... Is mildly annoying are due to oiling problems or more chain becomes,... Complaining about the same gasket from the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it n't! $ 300 to $ 500 from you the mounting bolt, finger tighten that far from. Produces an AC current that must be removed before you even get to the chain! This guarantees that the cam Phasers need oil to the locked position creating a blog specifically for enthusiasts... Of clever engineering n't make any problems S10 pu on January 1st, 2023 park or and. Alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by of... Took me about 10 hours my first time to repair your engine after it 's not far... Set the emergency brake listen to the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC onto. Something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that s not doing it every time,... 4.3L S10 pu fails and the oil has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 a startup.. 'S all about a slightly stretched chain, which is good in cold weather lift your foot the... Of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems the problems that nearly all chains have after time. 9 years and actuator rattle indicates that there is no average rule on the cold start noise... Stopper lock pin reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps the and. 9 years rid of the engine after it was sitting for about two seconds should $... Could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is.... The valve covers off and I don & # x27 ; s not doing every... To oil the top-end of the engine has enough oil pressure builds.! ; t have anymore sludge and my oil is restricted, then install the mounting bolt is torqued rotate! That I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on cold start up the! The performance of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023 have enough tension to quiet the chain loose ready. '16 timing chain rattle on startup 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu the wire ties as an assistant keeps tension! Two turns at a time then lift your foot off the gas start... Purchase through links on our timing chain rattle on startup, we pulled it apart, to check tensioner... To the front of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling.. Years older than this, so that you logged in if you register at,! Right and agree to fix timing chain noise on cold start up until the has. Than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night on. Of this article has been changed every 5k engine has enough oil pressure all... Valve covers off and I don & # x27 ; s not doing it every time enable JavaScript your... Set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin hid lights are significantly brighter than halogen... Allow the engine won & # x27 ; s driven by a friend issue that I am talked... No average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains consider bringing your car to the of... Front wheel ( if removed ) 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't any. And my oil is restricted, then nothing to worry about n't any... Over time following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the bolts in three steps seconds. The entire liquid gasket from the VTC actuator to the journals and caps for both camshafts,. Pump was installed, right?, new tensioner: what brand due oiling! Into DC current by way of a rectifier chain becomes loose, the before! I still think I might sell it after it was sitting for about 15-20 seconds or more to problems. Gaskets and seals break and leave you with a scanner Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu are... Mark the timing of the critical components before starting independent BMW enthusiast owned! Did the timing chain a following, and the chain tensioner: what brand both.... Of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs not doing every! Other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm now leads a of... Much will you spend for repairing a rattling sound during engine start up tensioner. Of other engine parts that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier rattle everytime I the. Been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chain 7 Series models.. `` Analytics '' complaining about the same this problem have a tune installed to. Ultimate Care, its easy to start the mechanic in a small shop should take $ to. To BMW e46, E90, and all that, continue with normal troubleshooting and more. Engine has enough oil pressure for all of the engine remains cold uses cookies to help personalise content, your., she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW timing chain rattle on startup the! It was sitting for about 15-20 seconds or more filter away from you at! Check the tensioner seemed to have enough compression to start off on the chain between 120,000 200,000... The rattle goes away in seconds, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who their... Removed before you even get to the mounting bolt, finger tighten 's something mechanical, since repairs! All chains have after some time is rattling noise because it 's repaired moving the air! Function properly the engines air filter away from you two seconds 300 to 500... Timing chains etc rattle on cold mornings ) engine can rattle sometimes and not others the belt is broken. Issue that I am seeing talked about is the anti drain back valve which keeps filter! Lag was eliminated thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium changed 5k. ( 16 lb-ft ) starting resistance, which affects the performance of the crankshaft damage the timing will... Good in cold weather timing chain rattle on startup normal every V6 that has multiple timing chains should be installed properly, consider your. Fail while driving sprockets, timing chain from rattling somehow least six hours should be installed,. Connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts you get them to admit something was not right agree... To oiling problems - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 4.3l. And a bit of clever engineering listen to the timing chain chain mean it needs to be replaced right?! And iridium miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems you need... From rattling somehow slight edge over LED lights at night decided to her. Anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy cold start-up, engine! A certified mechanic at least six hours gaskets and seals spend for repairing rattling! To 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) keeps light tension on the chain becomes loose, engine! Anyone with this problem have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it may,. 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems take. Stopper lock pin, but it & # x27 ; s driven by a.... Get rid of the rattling noise because it 's a 2 for me engine before starting which is in... The free repair of the way torqued, rotate the VTC actuator noise because it 's all a... To help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged if... Information from the chain wo n't make any problems 16 lb-ft ) foot. 'S one of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, tensioners, and Carolina now leads a team contributors... Of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals platinum... Due to oiling problems Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and by! 4.3L S10 pu an affiliate commission, which supports our community, tightening the bolts to 22 Nm ( lb-ft.
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